Old session with a new client - part 2

"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality,
they are not certain.
And as far as they are certain,
they do not refer to reality."
~Albert Einstein~
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CLIENT: Do I have stability physically?

GUYS: Your physiological energy matches your intention, so that your body and everything that's happening with your body supports your agenda. You are very well-organized for what you're doing.

CLIENT: How about healthy? Is that a word that means anything?

GUYS: Well, it depends on whether or not you value health.. .how can we say this? ...See, if you eliminate a hierarchical value system, and look at physical ailments or the lack of them for what they are, independent of the value that you place on them... so that cancer is cancer and indigestion is indigestion. ... it's not necessarily negative, in that glowing health and rosy cheeks are not necessarily positive. They just are what they are. They're a report that you might get off of a health check-up.

If you look at it independently of the value systems, then any system that is disrupting your idea of physiological well being, in your value system, has a purpose. You've put it in there specifically to bring yourself into a certain alignment or a certain kind of consciousness.

CLIENT: You mean, if I had cancer I would have brought that on to myself for a purpose?

GUYS: If you were to have cancer, yes. It would be within a very meticulous organizational system for you. It would not be a correction that you would want made were you to bring that in. You would not avoid it. You would go with it. That's the way that your energy lines up.

ANSWER: I would think everybody would want to avoid something like cancer, wouldn't they?

GUYS: Well, but see, that's that part of you that thinks that everyone has the same value systems. That is not true.

CLIENT: But in terms of impairing the ability to move in the direction that one wants to move.

GUYS: But, you see, oftentimes AIDS or cancer or a broken leg or some shift in the relationship to the body, supports movement in a direction that is already sort of "inertiaed" [used as a verb] in a different direction. It stops the inertia and allows for an opportunity to adjust the course in a different direction. That's just objective — not that that's good or bad. That's just the way that it works — mechanically.

CLIENT: So if somebody came to you and said "I have cancer. I would like to know how I could get rid of it," you would say "that's not what we do"?

GUYS: Well, see now, we've worked with people in various physiological crises. In general, it's not the kind of work that Ava attracts because she personally, as a human being, has a lot of fear around this; so it's very difficult for us to be clear when her energy is not clear. But we have worked with several people with AIDS, where in these particular instances, where we have found the focus has not been on the physiological, which is why they came.

It's been more on quality of life; so we can address what comes up in terms of your quality of life when you have what appears to be a diminishing quantity of life on the agenda; and how to deal with that phenomenon and enhance the life that is available, even as it may be in jeopardy. But that also, you can see, is just more sorting around and rooting around through personal philosophies — not ours, theirs — and to give them an opportunity to define and redefine and look at things from a different vantage point if they so choose.

You see, we don't come here to proselytize. We're not bringing except an opportunity to look at something from a different vantage point. Whether somebody takes it or not is not much interest to us. What they do is interesting — meaning do they take it? Do they not take it? We're very interested in that, but we're not invested in anyone taking our advice at all.

CLIENT: But I thought you said before that everyone currently alive has their cheering section up or where...uh...

GUYS: Yes. That's people that are interested.

CLIENT: So when you cheer, what are you cheering for? Do you say "I hope that x happens to my person y?"

GUYS: No, it's not quite like that. It's closer to what you might think of as a fan at the World Series who loves the game and is there to watch the two best teams play and to see what happens - - HOW they play; what's the strategy.

CLIENT: But which one wins is...
GUYS: Is irrelevant.
CLIENT: Is irrelevant.

GUYS: It's the game that counts — from our vantage point, but that's the way that we set up our values; that's what we value — the game, in the way that we're looking at it. You value whatever you wish. The only thing we have to say is that there is no greater value-er out there than you. You are it.

CLIENT: So that's the real message that you're bringing is "don't get hooked on any system..."

GUYS: No, we're saying, we're saying "you don't have to get hooked," not "don't get hooked!"

CLIENT: Or if you do get hooked, it has nothing to do with reality or the truth.

GUYS: We're saying "if you do get hooked, then consider whether or not you want to stay hooked because you don't have to be hooked." If you want to stay hooked that's great. If you're thinking that you HAVE to be hooked and you have no choice, then we say you do have a choice. But you don't have to make the choice in that direction just because you have it, in the same way that you don't have to stay in your car, just because you own one. You don't have to constantly be driving, just because you have a car and can, if you want to.

You don't have to leave home just because you can, but it's nice to know, if you've forgotten, that there's a car in the garage and you can leave home if you want to. And that's the message that we bring: "Hey, you've got the keys to that car in the garage. If you want out, you can get out." But by no means are we going to say "out! Out!"

CLIENT: Are concepts like love also an illusion?

GUYS: In the way that the Hierarchical Game values them, no. But there are other ways of interacting with love beyond, in addition to, other than, the way that you imagine or have come to think.

CLIENT: Like?

GUYS: That love is more than affection.

CLIENT: Yes, I think most people know that but a...

GUYS: You'd be surprised. If you dig under the surface, what people will call an unloving act, we would call an unaffectionate act — not necessarily unloving.

CLIENT: And unconditional love — what role does that play in all of this?

GUYS: It is what supports everything else that you do. There is nothing else without it.

CLIENT: And where did unconditional love come from?

GUYS: Where everything else comes from.

CLIENT: Which is?

GUYS: All that is.

CLIENT: And there is no evil?

GUYS: There is within the Hierarchical Game. Most of it interplay.

CLIENT: But apart from that?

GUYS: Apart from that there is no evil. It is a construct. It is a wonderful, very energizing concept.

CLIENT: And certainly no heaven or hell?

GUYS: There is within the Hierarchical Game. There absolutely is! Where it is, it's as real as anything else.

CLIENT: I know but I mean outside the game.

GUYS: No, there isn't.

CLIENT: In terms of reincarnation, in this particular three-dimensional environment...

GUYS: It's all over the place.

CLIENT: And some people are reincarnated and some are not?

GUYS: Most people — there's no one that you know that hasn't reincarnated, because that what it takes to acquire the level of mastery that you have at playing this game. It's a continuous devotion to practice, in your language. It's the same as spring training and all of the work that goes into mastering any sport; any skill requires a lot of time and devotion. And reincarnation is one of the ways that that happens.

CLIENT: And some people have been reincarnated more often than others?

GUYS: More often than others out of desire and interest, not out of necessity.

CLIENT: They are the ones who determine whether or not they are going to reincarnate?

GUYS: Absolutely. No other.

CLIENT: And that means that when they die...

GUYS: They have a think about whether or not they want to come back and how.

CLIENT: And the person who does that thinking is...does that person still have the name of its last incarnation?

GUYS: Only if it's relevant to keep a continuity in the identity.

CLIENT: Does that person have an unconscious?

GUYS: In that particular position? Only if there are things that are better left unremembered before you go back in. See, there are certain lives that work better with a certain continuity, where you keep a similar energy flowing, until you get what you want out of it. And in that context, it makes no sense to bring in too much extraneous data. It's just distracting.

CLIENT: Well, with the population expansion there must be any number of people being born for the first time?

GUYS: No. No new players.

CLIENT: There are no new players?

GUYS: No new players. It's too advanced a game. This is a Master's Game. There are no new players.

CLIENT: So where are the five billion people in their prior incarnations?

GUYS: That's the loaves and the fishes, isn't it?

CLIENT: I don't understand.

GUYS: In the same way that in your mythology Christ could feed the multitudes out of the two loaves and fishes. There is the capacity to create aspects of yourself and replicate them.

CLIENT: Oh, you mean you reincarnate into a number of different beings?

GUYS: There is that capacity within the system to do that. So the numbers game is a game that could be fiddled with from outside of the game any way that you wanted.

CLIENT: Well, that's all very interesting. GUYS: We think so. And you're in it.

CLIENT: Well, we're all in it.

GUYS: Well, we're not in it, in a sense. We're no more in it than any observer of the World Series.

CLIENT: But aren't you part of someone else's game?

GUYS: Well, that's an entirely different thing. We were commenting on your game here, your construct, and your exploration within our version — and it's our version; a lot of people have a lot of different versions; we don't hold up ours as right. It's just ours and we enjoy it. All right. Well, any last comment, question, observation.

CLIENT: No, except it's been very interesting.

GUYS: It's been interesting for us too. We've enjoyed it. Not very many people cone in an bring forth this much philosophical inquiry. Most of the work that we do is much more practical so this is a lovely diversion and we thank you.